Cinesamples Industry Brass and Musio subscription platform inc "Lifetime license"

[Guy Rowland]

I don't think we've covered Cinesamples new subscription platform Musio at all here, and perhaps it's little wonder. The Musio website - https://www.musio.com/ - is a quite extraordinary information vacuum. I'm not being hyperbolic here - I've looked high and low, but nowhere does it say what products are actually in it. Nowhere. Nothing. This is the most detailed information I could find, buried in the FAQ - "Our collection offers a wide variety of instruments from orchestral instruments to synthesizers and will be continually expanding on a regular basis."

I know the brand new Industry Brass library is in it because the newsletter tells me it is, even though there's nothing about even that premier release on the website. The newsletter does point to two videos, this 30 second intro:



And a short playthrough of their demo:



Beyond that - nada.

What I do know is that it is subscription-only which costs $20 per month or $150 per year. And they're really keen for me to do a 14 day free trial.

I can't recall any other major release or platform that has been done quite this badly. If anyone is feeling bored and tries the trial, please do report back on what you find.

[Linos]

Guy, if you scroll down a bit from the top of the page, on the left side you'll find the text 'What instruments are in Musio?' with a link to a pdf. The pdf is truncated thoug. Everything above 'bassoon' is cut, so we only get to see what percussion instruments are included. You'd think for major releases, a company would spend the time to proof-read the materials. Alas.
There's not a word about Industry Brass either. Curious.

[Guy Rowland]

Guy, if you scroll down a bit from the top of the page, on the left side you'll find the text 'What instruments are in Musio?' with a link to a pdf. The pdf is truncated thoug. Everything above 'bassoon' is cut, so we only get to see what percussion instruments are included. You'd think for major releases, a company would spend the time to proof-read the materials. Alas.
There's not a word about Industry Brass either. Curious.

Oh well done, there it is hiding under those words! I think you should get a free month for finding it.

And actually the PDF here is clean to the end for me - https://storage.googleapis.com/musio-pu ... t_0522.pdf

So it looks like some light versions of things? I have way more Cinebrass than is listed here, but Cinestrings looks complete except for the runs. And Industry Brass is entirely absent.

[bryla]

Curiously they chose to show four different cineperc libraries (to make content seem bigger perhaps) even though they merged those libraries over 6 years ago.

[NoamL]

I'm very sold on this after the 14 day free trial, I think they nailed this one.

1. Yes, it's another dumbass subscription service... But, the value you get (IF you don't own many CineSamples libraries) is through the roof. I own CineBrass & Strings CORE, but still plan to get a lot of use from CineWinds, CineHarps and CinePerc. Right there that's $1,500 of libraries compared to $150 a year subscription. It's a different proposition from the similarly priced Composer Cloud, at least for me. If you own everything CS has released then this isn't a great deal for you.

2. Yes, it's another watered down sampler that doesn't compare to Kontakt... But, it is designed around those limitations. It's been running stably on my system. You can download the libraries lightning fast because they only offer one mic mix... which is the Dennis Sands designed full mix (or so close I can barely hear the difference) and sounds great. There is no sample purging, but the player is so lightweight and has no multi-mic mixing anyway so it doesn't particularly matter. The only real downside is no keyswitching, every patch is one articulation so you have to build your own multis (for example my Violin1 instrument has 14 articulations on 14 midi channels) and do keyswitching on the DAW side with ArticulationID or expression maps to direct artic information to each channel. So there's some setup there. But again, the player is really lightweight and can't really go wrong. This thing is like the opposite of SINE, it has zero ambitions and has correspondingly caused me zero headaches.

3. Most of all - they have immediately fulfilled their promise to develop products for MUSIO faster than Kontakt. The MUSIO versions of CineBrass and CineStrings have some significant improvements (that will eventually come to the Kontakt version) like redone noise reduction and reprogrammed legato transitions. Industry Brass (which isn't an amazing platform-selling product, but is a cool sneak peak of their next orchestra in FOX) went straight from development to their MUSIO platform, meanwhile the Kontakt version has to go through NI. They have convinced me of the benefits of using their own platform, faster bug fixes & early product releases are neat.

Also there's a 14 day free trial - completely un-limited playback of their "Core" orchestral libraries for 2 weeks for FREE. Hello EastWest and Spitfire?

Here's what is on the platform currently:

- Cinebrass, Strings and Winds CORE (no PRO)
- all volumes of CinePerc + CineHarps
- CineSymphony Light
- Drums of War 1
- Industry Brass
- Voxos
- Buncha smaller libraries I haven't downloaded: Village Drums, Village Mallets, Piano in Blue, Randy's Celeste, OBXA Synthesizers, Forbes Pipe Organ, Handbells, TR-909 & 808, LinnDrum

[Kuusniemi]

I have to say I'm not exactly sold on the sound of this.

[wst3]

I own almost all of their libraries - I really like the sound, and I really like their articulation management system. So yeah, Musio is not for me - at least not presently<G>.

However, I do think they have ticked all the boxes to make a subscription that works. Especially the part where they use their own sampler. It offers so many benefits, the biggest being no more dependence on Native Instruments. Which cuts both ways, their sampler is not up to the level of Kontakt, at least not yet. The question becomes how much you need the missing features.

[Guy Rowland]

Industry Brass is now out as a regular library for $399. I could be wrong, but I think the musio version was much stripped down compared to this:



Looks good and unfussy, sounds very nice... and pretty familiar. RRP $399.

[Guy Rowland]

I see Cinesamples are now offering "lifetime subscription" for a one-off price of $999, on offer til the 17th of $499. Also they are migrating everything they've done to the platform - https://musio.com/pricing/

It's a curious one. On the face of it, this is a fantastic deal. The reason why people don't like subs is you are beholden to them to keep paying or you lose it. Well not with this. It's not really subscription at all, it's permanent access to their entire output. I guess the flipside is that - with the ghost of Cakewalk perhaps - it might all vanish tomorrow, and then the whole platform might go down the tubes.

Either way I don't think it's for me as I feel so maxed out on orchestral stuff, but it is an interesting development.

[soundbylaura]

First the fake-mistake sale, now a "lifetime subscription". Sounds like a cash grab to me. Buyer very beware.

[Guy Rowland]

First the fake-mistake sale, now a "lifetime subscription". Sounds like a cash grab to me. Buyer very beware.

I must admit the same thought had occurred to me. It’s pretty odd when you think about it - they’re giving away everything they have ever done or ever will do for $499. CinePerc’s RRP is $699 on its own. Would they really do that if they weren’t in trouble?

That said, there’s no real risk attached to the products bought in the fake-mistake sale. It’s the lifetime subscription that makes me slightly nervous. I don’t suppose there’s any technical way that they could guarantee the products would work in the event of CineSamples and / or Musio ceasing to exist.

There are issues with Roland Cloud, they do “lifetime keys”. I don’t have any (or a subscription), but I’ve heard there have been a lot of problems with them, authorisation errors and so on.

[Geoff Grace]

It's my understanding that the Musio ports have limited mic positions compared to the Kontakt versions. If so, then the Musio versions won't exactly be everything they have ever done.

It’s hard for me to verify my recollection, but here’s the wording on their site:

“Musio’s live catalog will include collections developed from ALL Cinesamples content.”

Make of that what you will.

Best,

Geoff

[soundbylaura]

Lifetime subscription doesn't do much good if they go out of business next month.

I had a massage therapist that did this. Sold gift cards at steep discounts and then disappeared, leaving the gift cards worthless. He needed cash fast, his clients paid the price.

Of course I have no idea if this is what is going on with CineSamples. It just feels familiar to me because of previous experiences.

[Lawrence]

I bought CinePerc for $81. Great stuff. Then I had a rare moment of profligacy and bought CineBrass (both versions) and CineStrings, which are fine but totally unnecessary for me.

Does anyone believe that the $499 Musio deal will be limited to “the first 100 buyers?” I don’t.

Still-I think Cineperc is excellent.

[Guy Rowland]

I bought CinePerc for $81. Great stuff. Then I had a rare moment of profligacy and bought CineBrass (both versions) and CineStrings, which are fine but totally unnecessary for me.

Does anyone believe that the $499 Musio deal will be limited to “the first 100 buyers?” I don’t.

Still-I think Cineperc is excellent.

I too strongly doubt $499 will be limited!

I hope I’m wrong and they’re in good health, and this is just a re-adjustment to their pricing model. Aside from the increase in support issues and maybe bandwidth, it’s always been the case that 1 copy sold at $1,000 is equal to 10 copies sold at $100, and pricing aggressively may make more commercial sense in such a tough landscape. Spitfire routinely do 50% off now where they used to barely do sales. OT I think are still holding out with high prices.

I still use CinePerc a lot, and agree it’s terrific. I just have the original Core and Pro, not Epic and Aux - all 4 got combined. I nearly got that $81 deal, but the sheer size and duplication, plus the fact I have pretty much everything from Epic and Aux elsewhere, meant I couldn’t face it.

Geoff - good thought about the extra mic positions. I haven’t looked into it - is it blanket single perspective in Musio or is it case-by-case?

[doctoremmet]

“Coming soon”

Also: that “first 100” was just an insincere money grabbing piece of marketing BS

[Tanuj Tiku]

First the fake-mistake sale, now a "lifetime subscription". Sounds like a cash grab to me. Buyer very beware.

I must admit the same thought had occurred to me. It’s pretty odd when you think about it - they’re giving away everything they have ever done or ever will do for $499. CinePerc’s RRP is $699 on its own. Would they really do that if they weren’t in trouble?

That said, there’s no real risk attached to the products bought in the fake-mistake sale. It’s the lifetime subscription that makes me slightly nervous. I don’t suppose there’s any technical way that they could guarantee the products would work in the event of CineSamples and / or Musio ceasing to exist.

There are issues with Roland Cloud, they do “lifetime keys”. I don’t have any (or a subscription), but I’ve heard there have been a lot of problems with them, authorisation errors and so on.

Guy, appolgies for asking a basic question but it is really the full version of everything they have ever done on Musio? When it launched, it was like a lite version of stuff from cinesamples plus some new things.

As it stands today, is Musio offering complete extended (with all mic positions) versions of all their libraries?

[doctoremmet]

They aren’t. They will add mic positions and better effects and key switching. And in terms of all the libraries being actually there, they will release a whole bunch of them over the next couple of months. They also confirned there will never be full parity in terms of functionality, things like the Voxos phrase builder and poly legato will likely never be part of Musio.

Roadmap:

[Guy Rowland]

Guy, appolgies for asking a basic question but it is really the full version of everything they have ever done on Musio? When it launched, it was like a lite version of stuff from cinesamples plus some new things.

As it stands today, is Musio offering complete extended (with all mic positions) versions of all their libraries?

So here's what their mailshot said:

We’re just getting started.

Adding to the hundreds of premium instruments already included in Musio, we’re excited to announce that EVERY Cinesamples sound will be added to the live catalog by the end of this summer.

That’s the CineSymphony family, Artist Series, sound design tools—everything by Cinesamples, plus a host of instruments you can only get in Musio.

They put a video together on what is coming:



And a website - https://musio.com/coming-soon/

And thanks doctoremmet - yes, looks like more mic positions are coming, and this is expanded on in the video at around 6'30. Crucially, like Sine, you can pick and choose what mixes you want. Also - I didn't realise this they haven't done this yet - they're adding keyswitches.

Dammit, it's starting to win me over. IF this is financially solid, then there really is a lot to like. I actually like the idea that I might "own" a ton of stuff I don't have on my hard drive, and can just download what I need as I need it. Particularly good for mobile working.

Clearly they've put a ton of resources into this. Have they overstretched? Dunno. Maybe the limited numbers are legit...

[Guy Rowland]

Incidentally - on my mailshot there's no mention of "first 100 customers" but it says "intro pricing ends April 17".

Dammit, I may have to have a play around with the trial over the weekend.

[wst3]

Obviously I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors<G>.

My impression of Mike Patti is that he is sincere, and always looking for that next cool thing, at least in terms of the business.

I think the $499 deal was made to attract attention to Musio, which a lot of us (myself included) didn't think of favorably at first.

I already own the entire symphony line except for solo strings, and the whole artist line. So Musio doesn't offer me a lot of new, which is a drawback. On the other hand, there will be Musio only offerings, and that might be enough to persuade me.

The entire instrument library marketplace has shifted over time, and it behaves quite like a commodity these days, where price is the principle or maybe sole factor in any purchasing decision. The old race to the bottom.

For me it comes down to the question have they come up with the next great thing or are they on the ropes. I sincerely hope it is the former, I really do like their libraries.

[doctoremmet]

I am slightly annoyed by the marketing (“act fast”, “the first 100”, etc.) but did get the lifetime subscription. And although there is no parity with the Kontakt versions, they did include a pretty good mix (I suspect the Dennis Sands one?) and a great selection of really playable orchestral instruments with pretty decent legato patches. Actually, I’m impressed. And the “extra” content that’s there is pretty nice too, I actually quite like the sound of those Newman scoring stage recordings of the new brass library. It sounds much better to me than I was expecting based on the pretty lacklustre demos and playthroughs. Also stuff like Apocalyptica seems neat and is an example of a library I wouldn’t necessarily have purchased.

It feels like a gamble but the damage is maximized in monetary terms, there isn’t a whole lot of time expenditure involved (the software is very simple and works pretty much out of the box) and there seems to be a rather large upside. At the very least there is a pretty big “fun factor” involved.

[doctoremmet]

Incidentally - on my mailshot there's no mention of "first 100 customers" but it says "intro pricing ends April 17".

Dammit, I may have to have a play around with the trial over the weekend.

That FOMO marketing was there when they initially launched it. Later they “decided” to extend the offer, so that explains why there’s no longer any mention of it. We’ll see whether or not April 17 is going to be the true end date ;-)

[Guy Rowland]

Thanks for all that, doctoremmet. I'm going to have a trial at the weekend, this is a very appealing offer.

[doctoremmet]

My pleasure Guy. You have no idea how much I have enjoyed your video presentations and solid advices over the years, so THANKS for that. I hope you’ll enjoy the trial! Do let us know.