Sleeper libraries or developers

[Linos]

What are some libraries and/or developers you have slept on? And what are the reasons?

For me one such developer is Soniccouture. I've read good things about their libraries. I think the demos mostly sound very good. I have always been interested in the celeste, marimba, vibraphone and clavichord. I don't know why I never bought one of these libraries. I guess it's both the price and the fact that I haven't had a project that required one of these instruments in a prominent role. Am I missing out?

The second developer is Xsamples. They have deep sampled instruments with experimental articulations on top of the standard ones. The libraries are said to be good. What stops me is that I don't know how the instruments were recorded. Probably in a very small studio. But is the recording quality good or just average? Also, the patches look like you need an IT degree to work with them. Can you work with them quickly if you set them up properly? Or are they quirky and time consuming?

Any insights into these libraries? And what libraries are you sleeping on?

[Guy Rowland]

I'm sleeping on FabFilter.

If every library I owned tipped into the ocean along with every DAW project and I had to start again, I'd maybe buy the whole FabFilter bundle. Clearly they're great and everyone loves them. But I can never justify buying even one of them given all the other good stuff I have. I guess I see them as quality basics, which is the absolute last thing I need.

Performance Samples is another. I think my reticence is that since they are such a different philosophy I don't know if I'd get on with them in real life, I always hesitate. Kind of the exact opposite problem to FabFilter.

[Jaap]

For me the same with Performance Samples and almost likewise Guy his reservations. I am not sure if the philosophy they have matches me and if it would fit within my work projects with other libraries, synths etc. Every now and then when I see something passing by, I taken a listen and agree that it sounds lovely, but it somehow can never convince me to jump into their ecosystem.

[Linos]

Not that I am an expert in mixing, but I think you are right about Fabfilter Guy. If you have a good quality EQ, compressor, limiter, etc. that you know well, you don't need Fabfilter. They don't have standalone features or functionality. They just do the basics more cleanly and efficiently than most other plugins.

Performance Samples is a good one Guy and Jaap. I am with you, and I don't have any libraries from them either. The problem I have with PS libraries is that they don't have complete workhorse libraries. The libraries sound great, but there is always something missing.
For example, I heard demos of the Vista 2 solo cello and was taken by the sound. Then a bit of reading revealed that it is just a legato patch. Fine by me. But that's not all, it also only has a mezzoforte dynamic. And that's where they lost me. When I write for solo cello, I don't want to be locked into the mf dynamic. It's an absurd restriction. The libraries purpose is too specific that I would find wide use for it. And for $149 I am sure you can find a complete solo cello library somewhere.

I just found out that PS has more solo strings. There is also Pacific Solo Strings. This library has a solo violin and a solo cello. No viola.

There are other PS libraries that are more complete. Still, Jasper Blunk seems to have an eclectic approach to sampling. The content of the libraries seems haphazard and there is a lot of overlap. This makes the PS catalogue difficult to navigate and not very accessible.

But the biggest downside tends to be design choices that don't work for me. A string library that has portamento transitions baked in at the higher dynamics isn't a library I want to work with. I'll decide for myself when to use portamento and when not, thank you very much.

[Luke]

In regards to Sonic Couture, they are stellar, no doubt. Their ethos shines through in every library they create. Having said that, while I own their Orchestral Percussion collection among others, unless you have solo usage in mind for them, the level of detail is almost intrusive. I find that working with orchestral pieces, sometimes the right amount of sampling (can I say that?) is more important than all the detail in the world - it lets the instrument sit more easily in that particular mix. Same for me with the Vibes and Marimba. Love them for solo, exposed work, or small ensembles, but when it comes to larger pieces where they double or are part of the texture, I tend to go for True Strike or CinePerc, or in my case even Sonic Implants. They just sit better in context.

Performance Samples: I agree with you completely, Linos, about incorporating portamento in the highest velocity layer of the strings. I thought he was going to address this in a future update, but 1. don't quote me on it, and 2. he's notorious for pushing dates back. There is also a way to reprogram the samples to not use that layer. The reason I bring it up is that while the portamento is annoying and needs to be avoided, the library does sound lovely and full. I enjoy using and layering it when appropriate. But it does require setting it up the way you like (for me, creating a multi with all switchable articulations and a velocity controlled marcato layer on the legato/sustain).

Xsample: the only ones I have are super old Solo Strings (2011?) that only have SIPS for legato, but the wealth of cool articulations are sometimes useful for that raw delivery, and the samples can be spatialized like anything else, so I don't feel like the recording environment is a hindrance. Sometimes I'll layer them, but I admit to using them very rarely overall, as I do have many other choices.

As far as sleeper developers, Modwheel for me are a nifty esoteric one, and I've had a lot of great use for Waveskimmer in underscores.
https://www.modwheel.co.nz

Sounds of the Earth, Amazonic has been incredibly useful for me. I love the way it was recorded and despite the range of the library being limited, if you do any amount of world music, I think you can find a place for some of these sounds (Ethnic Winds/Perc in particular can be very forgiving in context).
https://www.soundsoftheearth.com

[Linos]

That helps, thank you Luke!

Interesting idea that there is a sweet spot for instrument detail depending on the use case, and that there can be too much of it. If it complicates working with the instrument, or if it uses more resources than your computer can handle, that's definitely true.
But what about dynamic layers? The Soniccouture Celesta has 32 dynamic layers. Great if it's a solo instrument that you hear from relatively close. Pushed back on stage and in an orchestral mix, you can probably only distinguish broad timbre changes. Some three to five dynamic layers will probably all that you need for that.

As long as I don't have a project with a prominent celesta, I will probably sleep a little longer on Soniccouture's libraries. I am interested in orchestral libraries mostly, and fine as these are, they are soloist libraries.

If you don't own it, Perc+ from Modwheel is very good too. If I remember correctly I used it quite a it on production music tracks.

[Luke]

Yes, precisely Linos. And I forgot Perc+ was by Modwheel as well, good call. It’s a great one, wonderfully detailed for those quieter passages. The cymbals are standouts. I particularly enjoy assigning the CC1 to the delay send and increasing it toward the end of a phrase to create more complex patterns.

[Scoredog]

Garritan Orchestra...I never use it.

[playz123]

Garritan Orchestra...I never use it.

And Garritan Jazz and Big Band as well; it's been sitting idle here for years.

[Linos]

The Garritan libraries I had a brief acquaintance with were all useless to me. The big exception is the Garritan CFX piano library. I use CFX all the time, in solo piano pieces and in orchestral contexts. It's one of the few libraries that I couldn't replace equivalently if I lost access to it.

[Tanuj Tiku]

It would have to be 8Dio for me. I have been disappointed a few times too many and not a whole lot there that interests me to the point I just stopped checking the website.

Also, in my opinion Fabfilter are not a basic set of plugins. They are very unique and cleverly designed. The EQ may appear to be simple but the GUI has been industry leading for years. There are many functionalities behind the scenes in many of their plugins and I would not part with them!

But I can see that if you already have plugins with similar GUI and functionality , the appeal may be limited. Even then, the choices are in fact limited.

[Guy Rowland]

For EQ, I'm very happy with Neutron 3. It's visually very quick to work with, you can be forensic or broad, it has masking from other instances, dynamic EQ, low CPU, the works.

That's sort of what I mean. I have zero doubt that FabFilter's EQ is every bit as good and versatile, likely slightly better but I just don't need it.

I'm sure we can all list poor developers but I like the spirit of the thread on our reasons for overlooking some of the good ones.

[Ashermusic]

These days, unless there are problems that require a surgical EQ, I am most likely to reach for a channel strip rather than separate EQ and compressor and I am pleasantly surprised at how often the PSP InfinitiStrip and Appogee Symphony ECS are all that I need.

After a long time hiatus from it, I am again often using the PSP Vintage Warmer again on the mix buss, remembering why I used to love it.

[Geoff Grace]

I've mostly slept on the Vienna stuff. I bought one of their Horizon Series titles in the early days, and I have VE Pro but rarely use it anymore.

Otherwise, I steered away from them at first because, at the time, they were pricier and drier than the alternatives. Now, I don't buy in because I'm spoiled for choice in what I already have.

Best,

Geoff

[Linos]

Geoff, did you never test one of the Synchron libraries when they allowed a 14days return window? In my eyes VSL is the most professional developer. They have the best sample player by far, and a quality control that actually deserves the name. I only use their old VI Woodwinds library because I don't warm to the sound of most VSL libraries. If not for that I would be using VSL libraries whenever I can. Workflow-wise they are far ahead of most other developers in my opinion.

[Guy Rowland]

Geoff, did you never test one of the Synchron libraries when they allowed a 14days return window? In my eyes VSL is the most professional developer. They have the best sample player by far, and a quality control that actually deserves the name. I only use their old VI Woodwinds library because I don't warm to the sound of most VSL libraries. If not for that I would be using VSL libraries whenever I can. Workflow-wise they are far ahead of most other developers in my opinion.

I found this INCREDIBLY useful - I bought Duality Strings Sordino, knowing I could trial it in this way. I thought the library was excellent, and liked the player too. But in the end I returned it, I found the (fake) HOOPUS strings close enough tonally.

[Geoff Grace]

Geoff, did you never test one of the Synchron libraries when they allowed a 14days return window? In my eyes VSL is the most professional developer. They have the best sample player by far, and a quality control that actually deserves the name. I only use their old VI Woodwinds library because I don't warm to the sound of most VSL libraries. If not for that I would be using VSL libraries whenever I can. Workflow-wise they are far ahead of most other developers in my opinion.

It sounds like they’re more than worthy of consideration, Linos. I had already moved on by the time they introduced their Synchron line, so I never tried them. Their return window is an excellent policy that deserves to be rewarded, though; and I realize that’s just one of many praiseworthy things about the company.

There’s a chance that I could have been a happy Vienna user; but at this point, I’m afraid that I have no need to expand my orchestral library collection. If that time does come again, I’ll have to pay more attention to VSL.

Best,

Geoff

[Markus K]

That's sort of what I mean. I have zero doubt that FabFilter's EQ is every bit as good and versatile, likely slightly better but I just don't need it.

The more I get into Fabfilter ProQ 4 the more I think it could be the one plugin that replaces all others. It's incredible versatile. Can be used as compressor, eq, resonance supressor and even saturator.

My sleeper plugins are DMG Audio which I always had an eye on but never got over the price. In the meantime I think with PSP Infinity Strip and Fabfilter I'm covered for a long time.

Orchestral Tools is another one I never jumped on.

[Lawrence]

Broadway Big Band. The price just floored me. I found alternatives and never looked back.

Omni 2 and Keyscape. Had my finger on the triggers and never quite pulled them.

The Garritan CFX seems like my kinda beast sound wise, and I’m SURE the 57th virtual piano will be the ONE.

I need 10 more plugins like Clariphonic and I’m OFF this island.

[playz123]

Broadway Big Band. The price just floored me. I found alternatives and never looked back.

Omni 2 and Keyscape. Had my finger on the triggers and never quite pulled them.

The Garritan CFX seems like my kinda beast sound wise, and I’m SURE the 57th virtual piano will be the ONE.

I need 10 more plugins like Clariphonic and I’m OFF this island.

An unusual occurrence here, Larry, with Clariphonic. I had read about it a number of years ago, checked it out at their website and bought it, only to discover that it wasn’t Max silicone ready. So it sat idle and unused for nearly 3 years until they finally released a Native version. Using it now, of course, but it did ‘sleep’ for quite a long time.

[Lawrence]

Frank, was it Rosetta compatible?

[playz123]

Frank, was it Rosetta compatible?

It very well may have been, BUT I simply was working in full native mode by then on a Mac Studio Ultra M1 computer and in 64 bit mode in Cubase. I had contacted Kush at the time and was informed they weren't expecting to release an update any time soon. But then one was indeed released somewhere around 18 (?) months later. Not sure exactly when because I never received a notification about and only found the update when I checked back one time.