piano sus strings movement

[RobS]

This is something that's driving me crazy... is it so hard to sample a piano key in such a way that it retains the movement of the strings?
Please have a listen to this example, it's just C#-E-A center of the keyboard. First is Brokenheartstring piano by Auddict, then what should have been the mother of all pianos, the Steinway D by VSL. To my ears the Auddict sounds like a real piano (nevermind the attack, only the sustained portion) whereas the VSL is just dead to me. Well I know that the longer the strings the more they become rigid and stable in terms of pitch, but I have played many grands and none suffered this issue. Am I imagining things? Could be an interesting test to do before purchasing a sampled piano library...

PianoSusQuality.mp3

(627.01 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

[Lawrence]

Yep Rob, I hear it and have been fighting it forever. It’s one reason I stuck with the Art Vista VGP2 for years, and am now using the Modern D.

[RobS]

Good to know Larry. If you have the time would you please post an mp3 of exactly the same A chord first inversion with the Modern D? That could help me make a decision

[Piet De Ridder]

Here's that A chord rendered with six sampled Steinways, Rob:

(1) Synthogy Ivory German D
(2) ViLabs Modern D
(3) Chocolate Audio Steinway D
(4) Orchestra Tools James Newton Howard Piano
(5) Insanity The Stein
(6) Premier Soundfactory Piano Premier 2

I’ve got a few more, and plenty of non-Steinway libraries as well, so if you like to hear some others, just ask, and there’s a good chance I might be able to do examples of those too.

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[RobS]

Yes! Thank you Piet, as soon as I get back home I’ll listen to the examples. Among them is there a favourite of yours?

[Piet De Ridder]

Solely based on this microscopic test, I would, cautiously, say that the Ivory and the Premier deliver the best result here, but as a test, this is obviously nowhere near sufficient to declare them favourites and the others also-rans. In fact, I wouldn’t be able to draw any conclusions from this, if I wasn’t already familiar with all these libraries. (Also: if we’d done this excerise an octave — or any interval, for that matter — higher or lower, the results would probably have been quite different.)

If you’re considering purchasing a new sampled Steinway, Rob, we ought to do some much more thorough and comprehensive tests and comparisons, it seems to me. Say the word, tell me what you’re interested in hearing and I’m on it.

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[Lawrence]

Hey Rob, Piet covered the Modern D so I’ll skip that one.

Is it just Steinways you’re interested in?

[RobS]

Hey Rob, Piet covered the Modern D so I’ll skip that one.

Is it just Steinways you’re interested in?

yes of course, thank you Larry... really what I'm after is a piano library that makes me inspired when playing and could be used as a satisfying demo for pieces to be recorded. Not necessarily Steinway, but admit I have a soft spot for the Steins

[RobS]

Solely based on this microscopic test, I would, cautiously, say that the Ivory and the Premier deliver the best result here, but as a test, this is obviously nowhere near sufficient to declare them favourites and the others also-rans. In fact, I wouldn’t be able to draw any conclusions from this, if I wasn’t already familiar with all these libraries. (Also: if we’d done this excerise an octave — or any interval, for that matter — higher or lower, the results would probably have been quite different.)

If you’re considering purchasing a new sampled Steinway, Rob, we ought to do some much more thorough and comprehensive tests and comparisons, it seems to me. Say the word, tell me what you’re interested in hearing and I’m on it.

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I listened to the examples, and to my surprise the modern D is not the one I'd pick (I know you weren't advocating it, but it's so celebrated...). Of all, it seems the Premier is my favourite, at first glance. The Insanity also has a nice resonance, but it's just 4 velocity layers and has no pedal down samples. This shows the limitation of this test, as you said.
Would you consider the Premier to be a step up compared to Galaxy Vintage D, which I have and like?

[Lawrence]

Piano sustain test.mp3

(3.36 MiB) Not downloaded yet

Here are a few Rob:

1. Production Voices 300 Grand
2. Galaxy Vintage D
3.Ivory II German Concert D
4. Walker 1955 Concert Grand Lite
5. Art Vista VGP 2

[RobS]

Piano sustain test.mp3


Here are a few Rob:

1. Production Voices 300 Grand
2. Galaxy Vintage D
3.Ivory II German Concert D
4. Walker 1955 Concert Grand Lite
5. Art Vista VGP 2

thank you! I have three of these, the Vintage D, Walker and Art Vista, and they are also the best sounding of the bunch for me. Production Voices it too bright, Ivory is better but still on the bright side. It also depends on the velocity you used of course...

[Lawrence]

Piano sustain test.mp3


Here are a few Rob:

1. Production Voices 300 Grand
2. Galaxy Vintage D
3.Ivory II German Concert D
4. Walker 1955 Concert Grand Lite
5. Art Vista VGP 2

thank you! I have three of these, the Vintage D, Walker and Art Vista, and they are also the best sounding of the bunch for me. Production Voices it too bright, Ivory is better but still on the bright side. It also depends on the velocity you used of course...

I was thinking that as well. I could make them all the same velocity if it helps, but I imagine that even at the same velocity they all sound somewhat different....

[Lawrence]

Btw, here are two more-The Piano in Blue version 2 (which I'm sure you have) and the Production Voices Studio Grand LE. It's the second one I found surprising-note the sustain.

Piano sustain test 2.mp3

(1.3 MiB) Not downloaded yet

[Piet De Ridder]

(...) Would you consider the Premier to be a step up compared to Galaxy Vintage D, which I have and like? (...)

Despite a few things that bother me a bit — I can expand on this if you’re interested —, I quite like the Premier Steinway, yes. It’s not among the virtual pianos I use most often, but for certain things it is a great choice. If I were forced to delete either the Vintage D or the Premier from my system though,, I’m pretty sure I would keep the VintageD (though that one has its share problems as well of course).

These videos should help getting some idea of what the Premier Sterinway is capable of:





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[RobS]

Thanks a lot! I like it, it has more grit than the vintage D but it's also less elegant, so to speak. In jazz this might have the edge... I'm not in a hurry, I can take my time and think about it some more. Thank you and Larry for helping me