Toontrack Decades SDX / Big Band EZX with Al Schmidt

[Guy Rowland]

Must confess this looks very useable and versatile - the SDX has kits from the 30s to 90s, the EZX just has the Big Band era kits. Nice demos on the site. And... oh my... Steve Ferrone's kit:

Produced by 23-time Grammy Award-winning engineer/mixer Al Schmitt
Recorded at Capitol Studios in Los Angeles, CA
Five (5) kits
12 snares, nine (9) kicks as well as a broad collection of hi-hats and cymbals
Includes several iconic original instruments, like the original snare drum used by Jeff Porcaro on Toto’s “Rosanna” as well as Steve Ferrone’s personal drum kit
Brushes and/or mallets available on select kits/instruments
Drums from the 1920s through the late 1990s
Recorded with an additional seven room microphones for playback in stereo up to 9.1 systems

https://www.toontrack.com/product/decades-sdx/

159 Euros for the SDX, 69 Euros for EZX.

[Piet De Ridder]

Usually not a big fan of the Toontrack sound, but this Decades set sounds irresistible.
I know now where the money I didn't spend on the MODO Drums is going to go to.

_

[Guy Rowland]

Daa-ummm. It might be a year til this goes on sale, this one is definitely making me twitchy. The number of articulations is ridiculous - up to 27 hi hat playing variations.



Good quick overview of the kit / mixer presets too:



There's a ton of other ]videos on the site too. Full install is 99gb, stereo only is 28gb. I notice you only get full bleed options with a full install, I seem to recall with the factory library a lot of the most common bleeds are in the basic set too, hopefully that's true with this also.

[Guy Rowland]

Oops, I just bought it. Time & Space have it for £122 inc VAT, and then I appeared to have a ton of loyalty points. Oh well.

Might be a few days til I can have a play.

[wst3]

disclosure - I've met Mr. Schmitt at AES conventions, we are not drinking buddies or anything, but I know I share at least some of his philosophies about starting with microphone selection and placement, and making decisions early rather than late. So if they were true to his approach this all but had to be a winner for me.

Based on the demos I've listened to. and the videos I've watched so far it is a winner. I absolutely love the sound. I did not think it possible to cram more than a decade of drums stylings into a single library. I stand corrected, and I'm pretty thrilled.

$400 is not something I have sitting around, so it will be a little while before I can make the investment, but I am quite certain I want to add this to my collections of Toontrack sounds.

I may even be on the road to forgetting their heavy handed approach to selling SD3. I am willing to admit that I should have jumped sooner. And I did jump almost immediately on the orchestral expansion, and I have no regrets.

This one though, I'm actually very excited about it. This is drums recorded (almost) the way I'd do it.

This is really good news!

[wst3]

well I can be an idiot - the $400 was for SD3 & the Decades SDX. The big retailers are already selling it at a discount, which is a little bit sad, but what the heck, I'm cheap!

I found it at Best Service for $139. Time and Space and Plugin Boutique both have it listed for $149.

Guess I know how I'll be spending the rest of the evening.

Really can't think of a library that grabbed my interest so quickly.

[Guy Rowland]

A small hiccup here - there is only the full installer showing up on my Toontrack Download thingy, and I just want the Stereo 28gb for starters. I've asked on their forum what to do.

[Guy Rowland]

Got it working - apparently you have to download the full installer first (defaults to C drive in Windows), then install the bits you need from there.

I've be able to do much more than a systems check (needles to say I'm skiving right now), but that sounded fantastic. Some killer kits here, and as expected a huge variety. The brushes - and assosciated midi - sound particularly sensational, though I'd imagine tough to program from scratch, that would be a general observation to make the most of, say, the 27 hi hat articulations. One pain - this midi mapping is different to the Jazz EZX midi mapping, so the swirls don't copy across leaving a horrible mess.

I've just installed the 28gb for now. This includes the main LR ambience room mics, and bleeds for all instruments on this pair, the overheads and snare bottom channels, which to be fair is the main stuff I tend to tweak. For all the others it will be the full install.

[wst3]

Saw that last night, UGH! A brief moment of panic ensued... this library is about three times my threshold for an instant buy, usually I waffle, and research, and waffle some more. It slows me down, but on the plus side, I have very few purchases that I regret.

Anyway, I guessed correctly, and was able to download and install only the main (28GB) part. I was up a little later than I should as a result.

I don't have any of the EZX libraries, so I was spared (didn't even know) the hassles of re-mapping things (their mappings have always presented a challenge, unavoidable with the level of detail I suppose).

I have to concur with Guy, the sheer variety is enough to make my head spin. If this were the only drum library I owned I would be in pretty good shape for the majority of my projects. I'm not selling any of the others, but this thing spans a huge range of sounds. And they all sound magnificent, no disappointment there!

My usual approach to learning a Toontrack library is to dink around in their MIDI files, In the past I have not found them all that useful, but these very well could be. As Guy mentioned, the brush MIDI files sound great, and I'm not sure I can do better.

All in all a wonderful purchase, no remorse at all!!! If anyone is wondering, this just might be a case where the demos do not do the library justice. If your focus is not addressed with their other libraries this deserves a thorough look.

[Guy Rowland]

Glad you're enjoying, Bill - fun, ain't it?

On the issue of the mapping, this was a useful reply from Toontrack on their boards:

The swirls in Decades use future hit technology and respond to tempo changes so are configured differently to the Jazz EZX with regard to MIDI notes. I think we could make the Jazz EZX MIDI work better with the Decades SDX so we will look into this.

As a workaround for now you could open the grid editor in Superior Drummer 3 and move the ‘flam’ notes to ‘out swirl’. It won’t sound as authentic as the Decades MIDI with the Decades library but will get you closer to the intended performance.

I just tried moving from flam to Swirl Out, and lo and behold it works. Would be great if they can somehow update to make this the default without mucking up the existing EZX expansion.

[The Saxer]

Great to see that making a good sound doesn't stop in an advanced age!

[catsass]

A small hiccup here - there is only the full installer showing up on my Toontrack Download thingy, and I just want the Stereo 28gb for starters. I've asked on their forum what to do.

Ha. I was just at the Toontrack forum seeking an answer to this very question. Lo and behold, there you were, and here you are with the scoop. I thank you.

[wst3]

Great to see that making a good sound doesn't stop in an advanced age!

One could argue just the opposite - to a point.

I am part of a group of audio folks (Syn-Aud-Con) and the founder was famous for saying "the ancients are stealing our ideas!" (among other things.)

It is ok, to a point, to re-learn things, it makes them stick I think, or maybe just stick a little better? Where it becomes frustrating (for me at least) is when I am asked to learn from mistakes I've already made. Drives me a little bit crazy<G>!

To your point, people like Al Schmitt and Bruce Swedien (to name only two) have a lot to teach us about engineering a recording. They've made all the mistakes, found most of the secrets, and tend to approach things from a pretty specific frame of reference.

I'm not as talented as either of them, but I do use a lot of the same framework for which they are famous. I do so because it works for me. It may not work for anyone else. But I remain very happy that I was mentored by some truly talented (if unknown) engineers at a time when that was still possible.

Returning to the topic - this library sounds fantastic. I've spent way more time than I should have already today exploring. Amazing stuff.

[Geoff Grace]

I was lucky enough to work on a number of projects involving Ross Garfield (the Drum Doctor) back in the '90s, and he really knows how to get a great sound out of his drums. This isn't his first sample library either.

Between Ross and Al Schmidt, I expect a great collection of usable sounds.

Best,

Geoff

[wst3]

Your expectations will be met - I just lost another hour just auditioning the brush sounds.

Amazing collection of sounds!!

So now I have kits curated by George M and Al S? What were the chances of that happening in the real world?

[Geoff Grace]

Thanks, Bill. That's good to know. I have to admit, this may be just the thing to get me to finally migrate to the Superior Drummer platform.

BFD has been my go-to for drums since its inception, but ROLI's acquisition of FXpansion seems to have halted development. I still get a lot of mileage out of BFD3, but Superior Drummer with Decades SDX looks next-level.

I'll probably wait for a sale on both products and then take the plunge.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying reading the feedback here...

Best,

Geoff

[wst3]

FXPansion was my first drum software, can't even remember what it was called (DR-008?), but it was similar to Battery, only better. I've imported those kits into Battery because it is no longer supported. I almost went the BFD route myself, but about the same time I found DKFH, and ended up going down the Toontrack rabbit warren. Can't even remember why. Always liked FXPansion as a company.

[Ashermusic]

I have mostly used Addictive Drums 2 and a couple of Chocolate Audio Drum libraries,but now I am intrigued.

[Lawrence]

How much difference would the EZX for EZ Drums 2 make instead of the SD3 package?

[Guy Rowland]

How much difference would the EZX for EZ Drums 2 make instead of the SD3 package?

I don't know the full details of the EZX, but according to the TT website here's the basics:

The Big Band EZX comes with two mix-ready drum sets, both derived from the five kits featured in the Decades SDX. The EZX is best described as a slimmed down version of the SDX, both in terms of number of instruments, available articulations, microphones and mixer channel options. The EZX was produced to provide a specific type of mix-ready sound while the SDX, in addition to its large pool of presets, features raw and unprocessed drum tones covering the entire scope of Al Schmitt’s illustrious career.

Looking for an instant big band sound – go for the EZX. Looking for all the options you need to mix, match and design the kits of your wildest dreams – go for the SDX.

DECADES SDX.
Works with:
Superior Drummer 3
Size: approx. 99 GB | Kits: 5 (plus additional instruments)

BIG BAND EZX.
Works with:
EZdrummer 2 and Superior Drummer 3
Size: 3 GB | Kits: 2

[Lawrence]

Difference=93gb.

[lofi]

Difference=93gb.

Looking for an instant big band sound – go for the EZX. Looking for all the options you need to mix, match and design the kits of your wildest dreams – go for the SDX

/Anders

[Guy Rowland]

Difference=93gb.

It is tricky to know how that translates in practice though. Kick out the surrounds and most of the bleeds, it’s 28gb. 2 kits out of 5, about 11gb. There’s extra kit pieces to loose too - maybe now 9gb? Is the EZX 16 bit? If so down to 6gb. So where does that 50% go? Presumably in the reduction of velocity layers and / or articulations - that’s the missing detail.

[wst3]

I doubt they will provide a lot more detail on the difference between the SDX and the EZX, and I too think they should, but alas I am already well down the SDX path.

My impression of the EZX is that it is intended to be kind of a gateway to SDX. They are less expensive, require less disc space and memory, and are easier to use (fewer options and settings). Same great samples, just fewer of them, and fewer decisions to make.

If you enjoy programming a drum track (and who doesn't??) then SD3 and SDX are for you. If you prefer to work quickly then EZX is your ticket.

Vis-a-vis a recent thread about the last 1%, I think this is one of those cases. On ear buds I do not believe you would hear the sonic difference the two, on really good monitors in a really good room you might. The bigger difference would be the performance. And that might be audible on those earbuds, but I don't think it would be noticeable, if that makes sense.

YMMV, but for me there are times when I want the uber-control of SD3, and there are times when I want quick, which is necesarilly a very different tool set. I use RealiDrums because, again for me, even EZX seems like too much work<G>. But ReailiDrums, in its current form, won't sound like Decades. Does that matter? Only you can say.

[playz123]

I did notice that a number of people went with the smallest of the three install options, but nevertheless I chose the middle option due to the fact it covers all of the microphone settings in the presets. It does take up more hard drive space though. Even if I don't plan to mix in surround sound, it still seemed to be the best choice for me. Certainly a very impressive SDX.